Using honesty and humor, Packard shares her own stories—which include successes, mistakes, triumphs, and setbacks—and provides teachable moments for any working woman.
Lean in, lean out, be bossy, be passive… Fortunately, Susan Packard, the co-founder of HGTV and the only female founding member of Scripps Networks, is here to simplify the rules
You list 10 strategies for women in the workplace, but what’s the single most important thing women can do?
First, I’d tell her she needs to build a fan club in her organization. Most women I mentor believe they’re well liked, but I challenge that. Likeability is a very tricky issue for women, because we walk a tightrope between being considered too feminine or too masculine. Be open and accessible to others. In other words, show your humanity. Also, get to know others outside of your team so you can learn more about the company. Ask to be a part of cross functional teams and task forces. All of these things build your fan club. Second, I’d say this is a marathon, not a sprint. It will take inner reserves of grit and resilience to build a career. We’ll experience loss, setbacks, but no impediment is insurmountable. If you love what you’re doing, stick with it.
Why shouldn’t women try to do it all, or even strive to be CEO?
I address this issue for women who bring up work/life balance challenges. Not all women feel these, so for them I say go for it! I’d only caution that being CEO is ultimately a very solitary role. You’re surrounded by others almost constantly, but it’s hard to form real connections without conflict of interest issues.
For women with balance issues, a senior role in the organization, or a #2 role, will be extremely gratifying, intellectually challenging and financially rewarding. The gap in responsibility between the CEO job and the next level, in most organizations, is enormous. Get good experience with a senior role while you’re a caregiver mode, and once out, your senior work experience will be invaluable for a CEO job, if that’s what you strive to do.
Should women play the game like men or just appreciate that men made the rules?
Every executive worth their salt is competent and results-focused, but all build their own styles over time– men and women. Being a gamer means being comfortable competing with others for the win. You can be a good gamer and be successful with your own sense of style.
Do women have a different set of rules to getting ahead?
Because society likes women in supporting roles, vs. leadership positions, strategies around building trust and likeability become all the more important for women, as do strategies for composure and emotional maturity.
Who are some examples of female executives who follow gamesmanship strategies?
Susan Cameron, CEO of RAI, a Fortune 500 company, presents herself with great poise and composure, plays the game of business effectively with men and women, and she’s passionate about supporting and promoting women. She’s the full package. Denise Morrison, CEO of Campbell Soup Co, talks about all the preparatory work—practice– she did to get the top job. Amy Miles, CEO of Regal, is a fierce competitor. Any woman in a C-Suite job had to compete constantly, and stuck with it. All of these great gamers.
What did you learn from being the only female founder at SNI?
The most important learning was that any woman who is in a position of authority, and who’s willing to fight for a more matriarchal culture, can be successful. I did this and won, even though I was the only woman with 6 men around me. But first you have to get to a position of influence in your company. That’s where gamesmanship comes in!
Should all women be gamers regardless of their industry?
Gamesmanship is a bit Darwinian. If you’re surrounded by gamers, you need to play too so you don’t get left behind, so you can continue to advance. Perhaps there are industries and nonprofit jobs that don’t have gamers a part of them, but I can’t think of any.
Is being a good gamer something that can be taught or are you born with it?
My book is about learning to be competitive if you weren’t born that way or didn’t grow up in competitive situations. I’m extremely competitive, others in my family are not. So it may be true that being a gamer comes more easily to me, but anyone willing to focus on the strategies, and face down discomfort that may come with competing, can be a good gamer. It’s a lot about your state of mind, and your awareness of what’s happening on the ‘playing field’ around you at work, where others are playing to win too. It’s about learning that losing at work is not the end of the world, waking up the next day, putting on your big girl pants and playing again. Repetitions with loss make losing easier, and keep you squarely on the playing field so you can rack up lots of wins too. That’s how you advance.
Does your career in media make your advice applicable to all industries?
Anyone in the B-to-C business has a lot in common—the need to build brands and an in-depth sense of your consumer so you can offer things she wants. B-to-B works a little differently. But in all of business, the key driver is competition: competing against yourself to learn and become more valued, competing against colleagues to get what you need to win, competing against industry peers for the best operating results. It doesn’t matter what industry you’re in, they all need good gamers.
What advantages do women have when it comes to gamesmanship?
In the same way that many men have an advantage from the practice of playing team sports, women have practiced being good listeners and observers. This comes with playing supporting roles vs. leading ones in society. Because we’re good at listening and observing, it’s easier for us to learn what’s important to others. Armed with that intel, you can try crafting win-win scenarios, but when that’s not possible, (as in, almost never) you can know how to beat the other guy. Also, through our good observational skills we can look at the ‘playing field’ and can see how you stack up vs. work colleagues, and what you need to work on to win more. Are you lacking an important skill, like finance knowledge? Line experience? As Ronnie Hagen said in my book, the job you do is the minimum expectation from your supervisor, and just doing that won’t get you to stand apart from your colleagues. Those important moments of self-assessment come from being good observers.
What advice would you give to young women wanting to enter traditionally male-dominated fields?
First off, I’m having a hard time imagining a field that’s not male-dominated. But let’s take manufacturing, or banking, both known for male hierarchies. I go back to Strategy 9, Grit. Look at Mary Barra, CEO of GM. She was at the company 30 years, and 52 when she became CEO. Getting situated in a C-suite job is not for the faint of heart. It takes time, resilience. And it takes an optimistic mindset to feel that no obstacles are insurmountable. Stick with it!
Are you a feminist?
I’m not sure what that word means anymore. Here’s what I believe: women should have the same opportunities as men, including salary, promotions, and leadership roles.
Can men take anything away from your book?
You know when I first started writing this book, it was for women, with what I thought were issues specific to them. As I’ve reread the book and gotten feedback from male friends and advisors, I see that less than half the chapters are specific to women. Added to that, some women, especially younger ones in the workplace, have been playing a lot of team sports growing up so the book’s message will be reinforcing instead of new. The book’s for anyone who didn’t get lots of repetitions with winning and losing, and who are not comfortable in competitive situations. The book’s also great for all the men who manage women today, so they can better appreciate how to coach them and help them to grow.
What is the biggest myth regarding women in business, and how do we overcome it?
There are a couple of them. There’s a bias from many supervisors that women who are of child-rearing age will drop out of the workforce to do that. That’s simply not true. I know many women who’ve decided against kids, and most others who have no intention of leaving their jobs once they have kids. In these cases, the work culture comes into play—how understanding is it of the tugs and pulls that come with caregiver roles.
The second myth is a critical one: that women better belong in supporting roles vs. leadership roles. This comes from a zillion years of us playing that supporting role-secretary, teacher, social worker, nurse, roles that exist to help and support others. We’re finally beginning to see the female role models who have shattered this myth—any C-suite female execute and all of the Fortune 500 female CEOs.
Would you give the same advice to women starting out vs. those who’ve been working awhile?
No, I’d tell the new employee, if she wants to run a company, she needs some key conditioning skills such as finance knowledge and line experience. I’d tell her that advancement today is not a ladder but a jungle gym (thank you Pattie Sellers!) and to look for lateral job experiences which will broaden her out as she makes her way. For those working a while I’d focus on emotional maturity. Those with emotional maturity come to work mentally focused and emotionally calm. They make well-reasoned decisions, not impulsive ones. They instill confidence in their team as the leader, and fight courageously for what they believe in.
Why does your message matter today?
Well last time I checked we’re still a capitalist economy, so companies need the most impactful people to drive their operating results. The data proves time and again that a diverse executive team produces better results. That means the necessity of women around that table. How are they to get there? By practicing the strategies of gamesmanship, women will have a new toolkit to draw upon as they make their way up.
